Weird to think that the last truly great Black Metal album of the 1990s was made by a San Francisco band that nobody gave a fuck about when they were around.
that's the way it works isn't it? the local bands no one gives a fuck about become the one's remembered only by history. hearse is outdoing itself with the two greatest usbm bands ever-- von and weakling. wish someone would give me insight as to how it all happened in the bay area.
Black metal has never really been my thing, I mean I get it and I like it...it's just not my thing, you know - but there was something about this band - their power transcended genre classifications so completely. Amazing live, and an untouchable record that someone needs to repress so the masses can see (hear) how it should be done.
Ah, Weakling. I was born about 10 years too late and 6000 kilometers too Canadian to appreciate them when they were around. I won't be downloading this one, I have it already. Absolute classic here.
some dudes picked up some instruments and decided to jam to a particular sound. sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. releasing a few albums was the follow up. we are all the same. thats how it happened in the bay area. -captain vague.
Well this album certainly got a fair amount of attention on metal forums ten-odd years ago. Somehow I've never gotten around to listening to it until now.
Liturgy belongs up there with Weakling, not so much as innovators but for taking the _Dead as Dreams_ sound to its natural conclusion.
I don't get VON as "black metal," especially in 1991. Not picking a fight here, just genuinely curious about the history of the early US scene. Any perspectives?
Seems I can't tell one horrible black-metal logo apart from another... and here I thought this was an early Xasthur album.
(Since I can't decipher the Xasthur logo, either, and it sure looks like that starts with an "X" and "A". That's my story.)
Then again, I've never even heard of Weakling, so I suppose it's a case of me still not giving a fuck about them (well, up till now, since I'll get around to listening to it soon enough).
I like the Liturgy album but every time I hear their frontman talk I just want to tell him to stop. Either way, thank you for reminding me this album was around, Aesop. It's been a good year since I last visited it.
Liturgy was a complete bore. I sensed no conviction..or anything really in their live/recorded performances. Also, be prepared for their new sound. They have "transcended" black metal!
It's apples and oranges. I know Krallice likes Weakling (as well they should) but they don't sound similar to me. I don't know if I've ever heard music, in black metal or otherwise, with the sheer terrifying desperation of Weakling-- like being in the mind of a homeless, family-less, suicidal junky.
Liturgy on the other hand, have clearly lifted the torch Krallice lit.
weakling is aptly named, and krallice is a poor man's krallice. of these bands, i actually think liturgy are the best. their idea of how their music relates to BM is misguided, but they make powerful, thoughtful music. i'm sure weakling was great live, and important to the west coast scene and all that, but their music seems limp and directionless.
There was a period of six months or so when all i did was listen to this album, all the way through, every day, and do push-ups. That was in 2003. Since then I've stopped putting it on the same god-like pedestal; there are other soul-shattering BM and USBM albums too. But yeah, Deas as Dreams was a game-changing album for me.
and Krallice is their own beast. anybody who can find more similarities between them and Weakling, beyond basic genre shit like blast beats and trem picking, has not listened to albums by both bands and is just getting their opinion from other people.
and Liturgy are just college twirps who don't understand Black Metal, don't even like Black Metal, and yet somehow believe they've "transcended" Black Metal with music that bears no resemblance to it. 19 yr old foolishness.
Shared Weakling/Krallice similarities beyond minimal conventions of genre: multiple guitar interplay & overlapping, occasionally contrapuntal melodies; "howled" rather than rasped/grim vocals, extended song structures; being American.
A personal opinion is that there is more melodic movement and variety of technique, timbre, & tempo in just a few bars of an average Weakling song than there is in an entire Krallice album.
Another is that the name of the beast which Krallice most resembles is called "Boring".
Liturgy, despite being horrible performers, incomprehensible and self-aggrandizing in interviews, and generally non-metal in appearance and proximity to the scene, are (again, this is personal opinion only) less boring than Krallice when evaluated solely according to the terms outlined above. But mainly because their drummer kills - the rest of the band has a distressing tendency to revert to sounding like bad Marduk impersonators. In terms of band philosophy, I'd say the SWANS are definitely a big influence, with the difference being that Michael Gira was part of a New York scene which took theories of performance seriously, and he attempted to put his theories into action on stage. Liturgy aren't saying anything that hasn't been around for years and years. But like a lot of bands these days they seem to have no idea what do do next ...
I've always regarded this album as well-above-average Emperor worship and have never fully understood its "classic" status. Good to be sure, but it doesn't connect for me like it has for others. It's certainly a bold and original record considering the time/place it was made though.
95% of good American black metal wouldn't exist without this one. Who knew?
ReplyDeleteReally, really love this album. I've listened to it many times. And still have only just started to really sink into it. Unbelievably dense and deep.
ReplyDeleteI've read that the band name is a reference to SWANS. Good enough for me.
Does anyone know if they played this material live?
They did indeed play live and it was religious.
ReplyDeleteMy vote for best American Black Metal LP!
ReplyDeleteHey, I LOVE it and I don't even LIKE most Black Metal. Gossard RULES, as does anything connected to The Fucking Champs.
ReplyDeletethat's the way it works isn't it? the local bands no one gives a fuck about become the one's remembered only by history. hearse is outdoing itself with the two greatest usbm bands ever-- von and weakling. wish someone would give me insight as to how it all happened in the bay area.
ReplyDeleteBlack metal has never really been my thing, I mean I get it and I like it...it's just not my thing, you know - but there was something about this band - their power transcended genre classifications so completely.
ReplyDeleteAmazing live, and an untouchable record that someone needs to repress so the masses can see (hear) how it should be done.
this album started a new wave of american black metal
ReplyDeletethis one... right here. is my favorite album of any genre of all time.
ReplyDeleteI agree, this has stood up as one of the most intense USBM albums EVER! Someone should do a vinyl re-issue so I can worship a larger copy.
ReplyDeleteJon / Hordes
Ah, Weakling. I was born about 10 years too late and 6000 kilometers too Canadian to appreciate them when they were around. I won't be downloading this one, I have it already. Absolute classic here.
ReplyDeleteYou put me on the spot with this album some time ago, and now that it's up, I will now d/l the album.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering how long it would take for this to show up on the current Bay Area stint. So good... I wish certain people would quit ripping it off.
ReplyDeletesome dudes picked up some instruments and decided to jam to a particular sound. sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. releasing a few albums was the follow up. we are all the same. thats how it happened in the bay area.
ReplyDelete-captain vague.
on eof the best Black Metal albums ever. simply brilliant.
ReplyDeleteAn album I've actually heard...you've gone mainstream Aesop
ReplyDeleteThis is epic and necessary! I thought this was already on here? Even if it is, it warrants repeating!
ReplyDeleteI appreciated Xasthur well enough before he broke it up.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like Xasthur was some sort of complete unknown in "the scene", after all...
finally got a copy of this on cd took forever weakling kills
ReplyDeleteWHA??! There was a USBM band BEFORE Wolves in the Throne Room?! Fuck these guys don't sound at all like they wear skinny jeans... man, bummer
ReplyDeleteso amazing...
ReplyDeleteBest Hearse post ever.
ReplyDeleteWell this album certainly got a fair amount of attention on metal forums ten-odd years ago. Somehow I've never gotten around to listening to it until now.
ReplyDeleteLiturgy belongs up there with Weakling, not so much as innovators but for taking the _Dead as Dreams_ sound to its natural conclusion.
ReplyDeleteI don't get VON as "black metal," especially in 1991. Not picking a fight here, just genuinely curious about the history of the early US scene. Any perspectives?
Such a great album. Listened to it this morning, actually!
ReplyDeleteLiturgy is ungood
ReplyDeletedon't get Von, don't get bm. end of story.
ReplyDeleteDead AS Dreams
ReplyDeleteThank you..
Liturgy's noises are grand. It's their theories that are risible.
ReplyDeletewhat he said.
ReplyDeleteam I the only one surprised the aesop ain't down with liturgy? they're no weakling but I appreciate their art fag ways.
ReplyDeleteI have seen them twice, I was underwhelmed. They were a poor man's Krallice.
ReplyDeletecan't argue with that! I've never seen em but it's impossible to listen and disassociate from krallice.
ReplyDeleteAw, man.
ReplyDeleteSeems I can't tell one horrible black-metal logo apart from another... and here I thought this was an early Xasthur album.
(Since I can't decipher the Xasthur logo, either, and it sure looks like that starts with an "X" and "A". That's my story.)
Then again, I've never even heard of Weakling, so I suppose it's a case of me still not giving a fuck about them (well, up till now, since I'll get around to listening to it soon enough).
agreed, the first time I heard them my reaction was that they were a Krallice wannabe with a quarter of the technical ability.
ReplyDeleteBeen rockin the tape version of this for years... might as well pod it up. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteI like the Liturgy album but every time I hear their frontman talk I just want to tell him to stop. Either way, thank you for reminding me this album was around, Aesop. It's been a good year since I last visited it.
ReplyDeleteLiturgy was a complete bore. I sensed no conviction..or anything really in their live/recorded performances. Also, be prepared for their new sound. They have "transcended" black metal!
ReplyDeleteKrallice is a poor man's Weakling.
ReplyDeleteIt's apples and oranges. I know Krallice likes Weakling (as well they should) but they don't sound similar to me. I don't know if I've ever heard music, in black metal or otherwise, with the sheer terrifying desperation of Weakling-- like being in the mind of a homeless, family-less, suicidal junky.
ReplyDeleteLiturgy on the other hand, have clearly lifted the torch Krallice lit.
weakling is aptly named, and krallice is a poor man's krallice. of these bands, i actually think liturgy are the best. their idea of how their music relates to BM is misguided, but they make powerful, thoughtful music. i'm sure weakling was great live, and important to the west coast scene and all that, but their music seems limp and directionless.
ReplyDeletethis is the band wolves in the throne wish they were
ReplyDeletesorry, this sucks. all i can hear are maiden and wasp rip offs
ReplyDeleteThere was a period of six months or so when all i did was listen to this album, all the way through, every day, and do push-ups. That was in 2003. Since then I've stopped putting it on the same god-like pedestal; there are other soul-shattering BM and USBM albums too. But yeah, Deas as Dreams was a game-changing album for me.
ReplyDeleteand Krallice is their own beast. anybody who can find more similarities between them and Weakling, beyond basic genre shit like blast beats and trem picking, has not listened to albums by both bands and is just getting their opinion from other people.
and Liturgy are just college twirps who don't understand Black Metal, don't even like Black Metal, and yet somehow believe they've "transcended" Black Metal with music that bears no resemblance to it. 19 yr old foolishness.
Shared Weakling/Krallice similarities beyond minimal conventions of genre: multiple guitar interplay & overlapping, occasionally contrapuntal melodies; "howled" rather than rasped/grim vocals, extended song structures; being American.
ReplyDeleteA personal opinion is that there is more melodic movement and variety of technique, timbre, & tempo in just a few bars of an average Weakling song than there is in an entire Krallice album.
Another is that the name of the beast which Krallice most resembles is called "Boring".
Liturgy, despite being horrible performers, incomprehensible and self-aggrandizing in interviews, and generally non-metal in appearance and proximity to the scene, are (again, this is personal opinion only) less boring than Krallice when evaluated solely according to the terms outlined above. But mainly because their drummer kills - the rest of the band has a distressing tendency to revert to sounding like bad Marduk impersonators. In terms of band philosophy, I'd say the SWANS are definitely a big influence, with the difference being that Michael Gira was part of a New York scene which took theories of performance seriously, and he attempted to put his theories into action on stage. Liturgy aren't saying anything that hasn't been around for years and years. But like a lot of bands these days they seem to have no idea what do do next ...
Dis a post on Weakling really degenerate into a debate about Liturgy?
ReplyDeleteStUFFED KRUSSt
ReplyDeleteI've always regarded this album as well-above-average Emperor worship and have never fully understood its "classic" status. Good to be sure, but it doesn't connect for me like it has for others. It's certainly a bold and original record considering the time/place it was made though.
ReplyDeleteusbm should be more about profanatica/von/gbk and not about norseyness.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that would be great if all USBM bands sounded like your three favorite ones.
ReplyDeleteI wish USBM sounded more like Winger. There's nothing 'Norsey' about Winger.
ReplyDeleteit would be great if more of them sounded like that.
ReplyDeleteNice blog you have here. I like the theme and presentation. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteYou Might also be Interested in Satiric Fables
The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse
The Kid and the Wolf
The Eagle and the Jackdaw
Belling the Cat
The Fighting Cocks and the Eagle
The Frogs and the Ox
The Crab and His Mother
The Travelers and the Purse
The Farmer and the Stork
The Peacock and the Crane
The Lion and the Mouse
The Tortoise and the Ducks
The Wolf and the Crane
The Wolf and the Kid
Twisted Fables
Weakling-->Liturgy-->weird spam
ReplyDeleteSort of a logical comment progression.
I may be a little late to this party, but they say it's better late than never. Thanks for this post. It is an interesting listen.
ReplyDelete